BTCC Car Balancing

Going to be blunt because that's all I know.

Lap Times for some cars
Maple Valley Short
Honda Civic - 40.5 HCR Wizard
Ford Focus - 41.6 HCR Wizard
Ford Focus - 41.9 HCR Mad Dog
Audi S4 with 5% 41.9 Blade39x

Road Atlanta Club
Honda Civic - 59.8 HCR Wizard
Ford Focus - 1.00.7 HCR Mad Dog

Silverstone Short
Honda Civic - 1.00.3 (Deffo a 59 in it) HCR Wizard
Ford Focus - 1.00.8 HCR Mad Dog
Audi S4 with 5% 1.02.2 Blade39x
Audi S4 without 5% 1.01.3

This is all we've tested so far but just by these that cars seem well off. Wizard is a quick lad, especially in FWD so I was expecting him to have the pace on me for this but no offense to Connor he's not 1 second a lap quicker than me, especially at Road Atlanta Club.
As for the audi I don't believe it should be running a 5% handicap for power, it's just getting munched down the straights & barely keeping up in the bends. More testing to be done but this is not looking good one bit & I'm strongly considering walking away from this altogether as this kind of car balancing without an open car choice is like asking a marathon racer to run a marathon while hopping.

Feed back is a must for this, sorry if I've caused any offense as that is the exact opposite of what I am trying to achieve, just voicing my concerns & the concerns of others.

Cheers,
Mad Dog  

This is the whole reason why we are doing the testing before hand. There is only so much 2 guys can do when testing the cars, and making a car list that would allow the championship on a site meant making major changes to what was a proven formula so stuff like the 5% power handicap was stuff that was brought over as a starting point as that car was almost 2 seconds a lap quicker than the rest of the field last year without it.

We are totally aware that there is work to be done and this will be sorted behind the scenes and the results passed on. We highly appreciate the feedback as it enables us to make adjustments to make it more competitive, though 1 thing we will not do is force stringent builds for each car as this is what has been keeping the championship going for so many years and is essentially the soul, allowing the teams/drivers to adapt throughout the season and it gives them a sense of achievement if they find a gem. So the championship would be pulled before that was considered as an option.

Things we are able to change is small power fluctuation on the cars the even them up a bit (Insignia comes to mind) as well as restrictions whiithin the game

We hope you can be patient while we fiddle these things out and we are aiming to have them done before the end of the week.

Thank you

Haydon no worries about being blunt and thanks for the feedback.

The nature of this series is rooted in our general love for the btcc and forza 4.   As Mab stated this is a series that has been run for awhile with friends having fun with it.  I felt it was a great platform for an XPLR series and we ran with it.  This series like the actual BTCC is long and will need to be tuned throughout.

As far as the actual builds I am aware of a few discrepancies but were left in place as we have no idea who will be signing up for what cars when registration opens.  Most every car has been picked now and today was the first day that times started coming in.  We now have tons of info to start our balancing for each car.  I will stand by mine and Mabs decision to make this series about fun and tight racing (for everyone).  This is why we are adjusting a few cars after the picks and not before.

Alan Gows general idea for the BTCC is do whatever it takes to make the field as tight as possible.  To give back markers every possible advantage to maybe run up front one day. We are adopting this philosophy whole heartedly.

You were blunt and I have thick skin so I hope the we can have the same in return.

Most of if not all of Forza organized racing is set up the same way.  Balance all first and let the fastest run away with it as they are the fastest after all.  This is very solid logic and the fairest way to do things I will agree. "but" This leaves the same 10 guys racing the same 10 guys every week and the same 10 names on the top of every winner sheet.  But there are hundreds if not thousands of other racers in our community and I feel that these guys are the backbone to our community.  This series is my attempt at throwing a dog a bone.  

Are the cars all finely balanced before hand to ensure perfect parity? No.
Are the race starts going to be balanced so every car leaves the line at the exact same speed? No. Will some guys not walk away as easy as possible? Yes.  
Will some new faces have an opportunity to run up front? Yes.  
Will some cars be slowed down throughout the season? Yes.
Will some cars be sped up throughout the season? Yes.
Are we hoping to run a season where we have 30 cars at the opener and 30 cars at the closer? Yes.

We are hoping that as many of you as possible will show up tomorrow for Media day and the first official practice.  All times will be recorded and adjustments will be made to even the field up.

After the first race is completed we will open the "Dear Alan Gow" thread.  This will allow every driver one application through the season to request a build review.

I hope that this settles your worries and you will continue to run our series as you are very respected by myself and Mab and it means alot to us that you are even interested in the series.  

I cannot guaranty anything except we will try our hardest to keep this series fun and exciting for all involved.

The civic will pretty much walk it

I'm not being funny but I was hoping to be about 1/2 tenths quicker than Haydo in this series (YAY, FINALLY) but 1 second is abit ridiculous and i'd have preferred to pick a donkey car to have a challenge but the Civic is all I know in BTCC terms. Should all cars, builds and parity be set before opening the series for registration. I did a hell of alot of testing with both of you to try keep this series level and help develop it but heard nothing for a few weeks and presumed it wasn't running. I would like to see some more parity otherwise I will be pulling out, I want to race with people and not drive away/be driven away from due to the car choice, if somebody is quicker than me as a driver, fair play, if their car is quicker than me across the whole season then something is wrong.

Connor you will be receiving a PM soon about the civic.

All 4 of you will and you will have a choice to make but either way it will be getting slowed.

In all fairness guys the civic is the only real issue.

The S4 and Vauxhall are also being looked at before season start.

I will take the blame for the civic.

In all my testing I was using the Mugen 10 and in a last minute request it was switched to the 07.

Rookie mistake not knowing the 07 was so much quicker in the same trim. Looked the same thought it was the same minus a body kit.   

I did not properly test the new civic and am now getting my just kicks for it. It will be sorted with a choice going out to the 4 drivers.

JVanEssen wrote:

All 4 of you will and you will have a choice to make but either way it will be getting slowed.

Good call sir. And fear not,,sometimes it take time to get the builds as close as possible,,all part of the process. Nobody is being negative here, and Wizard summed it up well. We all want to race on as equal terms as possible and then its down to skill and ability, not just a faster ride

Its good that we have the community we do that can help iron out these issues before the event too,,(thanks for putting in the test time Mr Dog & Mr Wizard    )

I for one am really looking forward to this,,,love BTCC and we have a good bunch of racers signed up giving a great spread across the field.

Roll on race day,,lol

G  

PM sent on XBL to civic drivers. Greg and Andy I kept you guys in the loop as well.

Could I be kept in the loop to please?

No probs sir. Good of you to do so. But at the end of the day it is still your series my friend. Anything we can do to help let us know.

And if u need additional bodies for supporting the series in any form just throw up a post and we can all chuck our bit in   

See ya online tonight chief

G   

JVanEssen wrote:In all fairness guys the civic is the only real issue.  

The S4 and Vauxhall are also being looked at before season start.

I will take the blame for the civic.

In all my testing I was using the Mugen 10 and in a last minute request it was switched to the 07.

Rookie mistake not knowing the 07 was so much quicker in the same trim.  Looked the same thought it was the same minus a body kit.   

I did not properly test the new civic and am now getting my just kicks for it.  It will be sorted with a choice going out to the 4 drivers.

The 1M will also do Civic times and I can run some times in it tomorrow if it needs to be proven

John, could you please pm me it on here as not gonna be on xbl for a few days!

Shooting it right over.

Wizard try the mugen civic best I can get is a 41.4 in it. Definitely alot closer in times will run other tracks to see

I did a 41.7 with stock tune in developing as far as I can remember.

Managing 1.41.7's in the mugen, and a 40.6/7 in the 07 with higher weight. The mugen is absolutely disgusting to drive and tune! Can't we drop the bhp down to like 280/300 in this series to make the czrs more enjoyable to drive? The rwd and awd cars are amazing fun to drive, the fwd cars are pigs!

HCR Wizard wrote:Managing 1.41.7's in the mugen, and a 40.6/7 in the 07 with higher weight. The mugen is absolutely disgusting to drive and tune! Can't we drop the bhp down to like 280/300 in this series to make the czrs more enjoyable to drive? The rwd and awd cars are amazing fun to drive, the fwd cars are pigs!

If you drop the bhp that low I'm sure a few cars would fall over that limit aka my car (rs3) and id guess that the subarus and other audis would too... Right?

Sorry guys we can make tweeks here and there but we are not rebuilding the entire series. Connor the Mugen was still the fastest car out today as the only two cars that went quicker in review were found to have illegal builds. Its official time in practice today was a 41.423 at Maple valley. As your and Mad dogs posts earlier requested the civic was slowed to within 2 to 3 tenths of his fords pace.

Am running 350hp in mines and love it. Big power fwd is all about throttle management and whilst I know they can be fierce to say the least I like having too fight with it a bit,,lol.

When u get it wrong it really costs ya,,but if u nail it just right and feed the power smoothly the reward is well worth it IMO.

But,,I fully respect that its each to their own with with liking big hp fwd,,,ask dog,,i love em,,he hates em,,lol

G 

I've crashed into the ambulance on the exit of the last corner of Maple Valley more than I can count due to the understeer. At least it's ironic?

HCR Mad Dog wrote:I've crashed into the ambulance on the exit of the last corner of Maple Valley more than I can count due to the understeer. At least it's ironic?

just give it 99% lol

Best in VXR - 42.2 Maple Valley

41.4 in mugen. i like the car its not as easy as the 07 civic was to drive. it will keep it alot closer and the racing will be better. think about how boring it would be in 07 civic always out front and just hotlapping. now with the mugen it will be up front but may have some cars to battle with now. this is a race series not a hotlapping sesh. remember i am repping a honda as well. i would much rather have a close race with the rest of field rather than 2 or 3 other people.

Edit: All cars kinda suck on Maple Short, but that Scion is an understeering pig. .6-.7 faster in the ST.